专访第十八届上海国际葡萄酒品评赛评委，葡萄酒大师Cathy van Zyl MW

第十八届上海国际葡萄酒品评赛（以下简称SIWC）于2024年6月17-21日在上海成功举办。作为SIWC特邀媒体，我们采访到了本届重量级评委，葡萄酒大师Cathy van Zyl MW。

Cathy van Zyl MW在2005年通过了以难度著称、享有盛誉的MW考试，成为非洲大陆第一位葡萄酒大师。在成为其理事会成员六年之前，她担任了四年的葡萄酒硕士教育委员会主席，并于2022年9月成为IMW主席（她将担任该职位至2024年9月）。Cathy在当地和国际上担任讲师和评委，偶尔会为世界各地的葡萄酒杂志和网站撰稿，但她的大部分研究葡萄酒时间都是作为普拉特《南非葡萄酒指南》的副主编度过的。2019年，她因对南非葡萄酒的热情推广而被评为开普葡萄酒大师协会年度人物。

以下是采访视频的文字整理。

1.First of all, please introduce yourself.

1.首先，请介绍一下你自己。

My name is Cathy Van Zyl. I'm a Master of Wine. I live in South Africa. My hometown is Somerset West, which is very close to Stellenbosch, one of the most famous wine-growing regions in the country. But we have a beautiful wine-growing country wherever you go with superb wines.

我的名字是Cathy Van Zyl。我是一名葡萄酒大师。我住在南非。我的家乡是索美塞西，这是离斯泰伦博斯非常近的地方，斯泰伦博斯是南非最著名的葡萄酒产区之一。但无论你走到哪里，我们的国家都有美丽的葡萄酒产区和极佳的葡萄酒。

2.So far, what about the quality of the wine sample in this competition?

2.到目前为止，这次比赛样品的质量如何？

This is my first time back to China after four years, and previously I have judged with the Shanghai International Wine Challenge(SIWC) for six years. So, as you might say, I am quite a veteran of this competition, judging from when I first came here to my experience this year. There are maybe three things that I've observed. Firstly, I found that the quality of Chinese wines has improved greatly. I've tasted some very good examples of Chinese wines. Secondly, I have found that the quality and knowledge of the Chinese judges have improved significantly, which is a great step forward. And thirdly, I do need to note that there are still some problems with the storage of wine in China. It seems because we get quite a lot of oxidative examples in the competition. But having said that, I've really enjoyed tasting in this competition. It is a wonderful competition for me because it gives me exposure to wines from different parts of the world, whereas if I judge in South Africa, obviously I'm judging only South African wines. If I judge at the Canta, which I do every year, I'm judging either South African or all Spanish wines. So, this competition, along with the International Wine Challenge(IWC) in London, gives me great exposure to a number of different wine regions around the world, and I'm enjoying it a great deal.

这是我四年后第一次回到中国，此前我在上海国际葡萄酒品评赛（SIWC）中担任评委已有六年。所以可以说，我是这个比赛的资深评委，从我第一次来这里到今年的经验来看，我观察到三个方面。首先，我发现中国葡萄酒的质量大大提高了。我品尝到了一些非常好的中国葡萄酒。其次，我发现中国评委的质量和葡萄酒知识也显著提高，这是一个很大的进步。第三，我需要指出的是，中国在葡萄酒存储方面仍然存在一些问题。这似乎是因为我们在比赛中遇到了相当多的氧化样品。但话虽如此，我非常享受这次比赛的品尝。对我来说，这是一个非常好的比赛，因为它让我接触到来自世界各地的葡萄酒，而在南非，我显然只能评判南非葡萄酒。如果我每年参加秘鲁坎塔的葡萄酒比赛，我要么评判南非葡萄酒，要么评判所有西班牙葡萄酒。所以，这次比赛和伦敦葡萄酒烈酒挑战赛（IWC）一样，让我接触到世界各地的许多不同葡萄酒产区，我非常享受这一点。

3.In your opinion, what key aspects do you need to look into when judging a wine in a competition?

3.在您看来，在比赛中评判葡萄酒时需要关注哪些关键方面？

So when I'm judging a wine in a competition, obviously we're judging wine quality, and the key aspect for me when it comes to wine quality is actually balance. If a wine is not balanced in its youth, it's also not going to be balanced when it's a mature wine. Also, you need balance between the different components: the fruit, the acidity, the tannin, the alcohol, the oak usage—all those structural elements to give you that balance. You can't really have weak fruit going through and think, "Oh, it's going to get better as it ages," or the tannins are too strong but will get better as it ages . So for me, the No. 1 is balance, and allied to that is freshness. If you don't have a refreshing wine that makes you want to drink another glass, then it's pointless because the wine is going to defeat your palate and it's not going to engage with your palate. There's one other thing that is quite difficult to judge, but with age, you get used to it, and that is winemaker intent. You have to look at a wine and kind of put yourself in the shoes of the winemaker and think, "What did the winemaker want to achieve with this wine? Is this winemaker making a wine that's easy drinking, fruity, and ready now, or is the intention to make a wine that is ready for long aging and needs time to mature?" That also needs to be taken into account when you're judging the quality because there are two different aspects of that quality.

在比赛中评判葡萄酒时，我们显然是在评判葡萄酒的质量，而对我来说，葡萄酒质量的关键方面实际上是平衡。如果一款葡萄酒在年轻时不平衡，那么在成熟时也不会平衡。此外，您需要在不同的成分之间保持平衡：果味、酸度、单宁、酒精、橡木使用等所有这些结构元素都要平衡。你不能有弱果味并认为“哦，它会随着时间的推移变得更好”，或者单宁太强但会随着时间的推移变得更好。因此，对我来说，第一位是平衡，与之相关的是新鲜感。如果一款酒不够清爽，让你不想再喝一杯，那么它是没有意义的，因为这款酒会让你的味蕾失去兴趣，无法与之互动。还有一个因素是相当难以评判的，但随着年龄的增长，你会习惯它，那就是酿酒师的意图。你必须看一款酒，并且设身处地为酿酒师着想，思考“酿酒师想通过这款酒达到什么目的？这位酿酒师是在制作一款易饮的、果味浓郁、适合现在饮用的葡萄酒，还是打算制作一款适合长时间陈酿、需要时间成熟的葡萄酒？”在评判质量时也需要考虑到这一点，因为这是质量的两个不同方面。

4.To join competitions is a good way to gain global influence in the professional field. Besides these, are there other ways to achieve the same effects, especially for new regions and new wineries?

4.参加比赛是获得专业领域全球影响力的好方法，除了这些，还有其他方法可以达到同样的效果吗？特别是对于新兴产区和新酒庄？

Definitely, entering competitions is a way to get exposure for new wineries and new regions because you're putting up your hand and saying, "Look at me, I'm good," so yes, it is one of the very best ways of doing that. The other way for a region is you've got to actually engage with journalists because journalists influence people who are interested in wine. That's a very important way: engaging with journalists, having a story to tell, but make sure that your story is authentic and truthful. You can't go and tell fibs because somebody will find you out, and it won't be interesting. The other way, I think, in today's world is to maybe pair up or look at stepping outside the wine and food space and explore more lifestyle opportunities such as wine and holidays, wine and perfume, fashion, and art. Associate your brand with other successful brands within the lifestyle space.

当然，参加比赛是让新酒庄和新兴产区获得曝光的一种方式，因为你在举手说：“看我，我很优秀”，所以这确实是最好的方法之一。另一个方法是，与记者互动，因为记者影响着那些对葡萄酒感兴趣的人。这是一种非常重要的方式：与记者互动，有一个故事要讲，但确保你的故事是真实和可信的。你不能编造谎言，因为有人会发现你，这样就不会有趣。另一个方法，我认为在当今世界，可以尝试跨界合作，或者超越葡萄酒和食品领域，探索更多生活方式的机会，比如葡萄酒和度假、葡萄酒与香水、时尚和艺术等。将你的品牌与生活方式领域内其他成功的品牌联系起来。

5.Orange wine and natural wine are popular now. In your opinion, what will be the trend for them in the future?

5.橙酒和自然酒现在很受欢迎。在你看来，它们未来的趋势是什么？

I think the challenge for natural wines is that they take a stand because if you do no intervention, which a lot of the orange winemakers are doing, they are lucky because they are riding the trend towards orange wines or natural wines. However, when you are doing this, depending on how they are making the wine, their wines can quickly become faulty or not last as long. So their challenge is going to be really about getting to know their grapes, understanding their winemaking, and maybe doing more minimal intervention rather than no intervention at all. For some of them, that might be a challenge because it's quite a boundary to cross from doing nothing for their wine to doing something to help make a better wine.

我认为自然酒的挑战在于采取立场，因为如果你不进行干预，就像很多橙酒酿酒师正在做的那样，他们很幸运，因为他们正赶上橙酒或自然酒的潮流。然而，当你这样做时，根据他们酿酒的方式，他们的葡萄酒可能很快会出现问题或者不持久。所以，他们的挑战将是真正了解他们的葡萄，理解他们的酿酒工艺，也许做更多的最低限度的干预，而不是完全不干预。对于他们中的一些人来说，这可能是一个挑战，因为从不对他们的葡萄酒做任何事情到做一些事情来帮助酿造更好的葡萄酒，这是一条很大的界限。

朴酌，两个混酒圈总时长加起来超过5万小时的闲人打理的张大妈账号。

任何跟酒有关的问题都可以留言，我们会挑我们看明白的回答～

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